163681

PSA MAIN PAGE - DNA MAIN PAGE - RESULTS MAIN PAGE

Last update 3/2011 RWJ - reformatted July 12, 2012 by GTP

Pace DNA group 3 - Probable descendents of Richard Pace of Jamestown

SEE-- Chart by John Pace using naming patterns to sort out groups 3a and 3b lineages.

Explanation:

At this point there is a break in the "hard" evidence.

One widely used source for " the children of "Richard II" is the Winifred Aycock Lane letter
written in 1791 (see copies and discussion on the Pace Network).

It is also ASSUMED (by some submitters)
that the Paces of these names found in North Carolina
are the ones named in her letter.

Many of the lineages submitted for this database
traced to RICHARD, JOHN, and JAMES,

and assumed that these were brothers as listed by Mrs. Lane.

This chart, at first, accepted and was based on that assumption.

However, recent discussion on the Pace list (as of November 2006) has indicated that there were probably TWO Richards in NC, and that one of them is the son of a George Pace - (Richard>George>"Richard II">George) - The Pace Society bulletins and other researchers have indeed provided good evidence that "Richard II" had such a son. The other Richard (+ prob. Sarah Woodliefe) may be a younger son of George.

Important conclusion:
DNA evidence shows these Paces to be closely related, thus supporting (but not proving)
the claim that they are descendents of Richard of Jamestown.

In addition
one Pace entry from the UK with London ancestry is a close match
pointing to the probability that the ancestor of group 3 might have had London origins.
However, his documented London ancestry only goes back to the early 1800s.

  DNA evidence

NOTE that kit 8179 (UK) is NOT a descendent of RICHARD,
but is included because of the 34/37 match with kits 6366 and 7833 and others,
indicating probable common ancestry.

Some in group 3b trace ancestry to John Pace b. Prince George County, VA, ca 1732. John married Sarah, some genealogists have said Burge or Burgh, but this is not documented.  Earlier, I used JP-SB merely as an identifier, but I have removed this designation, as it can cause the impression that John was the patriarch father of this group.  John joined the Tory cause in the American Revolution. DNA has placed some contributors in this group who do not have records tracing to John. The DNA indicates common ancestry in this group, but the common ancestor could be John or an ancestor of John.

   FTDNA believes groups 3a and 3b to be related but the time frame is uncertain. Both or neither could be descended from the believed common ancestor, Richard of North Carolina. The pink and blue colors show the differences exclusively between these subgroups.    7811 Unsure appears related to the John Pace + Sarah line.

John Pace has submitted an interesting chart using naming patterns to sort out the confusing possible relationships in lines 3a and 3b. Check it out!

Marker colors: FTDNA shows some markers in red to indicate a higher frequency of mutation in these alleles. This can help in dividing groups into sub groups. An example of this is seen in donors 6280, 9852, and 6711.

All members of groups 3a and 3b are in haplogroup R1b1. Click here for explanation.,

See added notes at end of chart.


 

Groups 3a and 3b

Differences exclusively between groups 3a and 3b  shown in pink for 3a ---------->

 

and blue for 3b

 

Extended marker results
  DYS→

3
9
3

3
9
0

1
9
#

3
9
1

3
8
5a

3
8
5b

4
2
6

3
8
8

4
3
9

3
8
9i

3
9
2

3
8
9ii

4
5
8

4
5
9a

4
5
9b

4
5
5

4
5
4

4
4
7

4
3
7

4
4
8

4
4
9

4
6
4a

4
6
4b

4
6
4c

4
6
4d

4
6
0

G
A
T
A
H4

Y
C
A
I
Ia

Y
C
A
I
Ib
4
5
6
6
0
7
5
7
6
5
7
0
C
D
Y
a
C
D
Y
b
4
4
2
4
3
8
5
3
1
5
7
8
3
9
5
S
1a
3
9
5
S
1b
5
9
0
5
3
7
6
4
1
4
7
2
4
0
8
S
1
5
1
1
4
2
5
4
1
3
a
4
1
3
b
5
5
7
5
9
4
4
3
6
5
9
0
5
3
4
4
5
0
4
4
4
4
8
1
5
2
0
4
4
6
6
1
7
5
6
8
4
8
7
5
7
2
6
4
0
4
9
2
5
6
5
 

Common ancestor

g
r
o
u
p
Kit #

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24 25

26

27

28

29

30

31

32

33

34

35

36

37

38

39

40

41

42

43

44

45

46

47

48

49

50

51

52

53

54

55

56

57

58

59

60

61

62

63

64

65

66

67

8179

UK - see Note 3a

13

24

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

9

11

11

25

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15

16

8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 17 8 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 13 12

6352

 Rich.+Cain>Drury 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                           
144464 Rich.+Cain>Drury 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
179032 Rich.+Cain>Drury 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
108957  Rich.+Cain>Silas 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 13 12 11 9

15

16

8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
14184 Rich.+Cain>Silas 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 37 38 12 12                                                            
119455 Rich.+Cain>Barnabus 3a

13

26

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
140013 Rich.+Cain>James 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

28

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   

131118

John+Ann Russell>John 3a

13

24

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15

16

8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13              
141962 John+Ann Russell>Twitty 3a 14 25 15 11

10

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 35 40 12 12                                                            
125997 Bignal 1750 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 37 40 12 12                                                            

6366

Wm+Lambert>Isaac
>John>Wm

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15

16

8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
128919

Wm+Lambert>Isaac
>John>Jefferson

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15

16

8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 11 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
132805

Wm+Lambert>Isaac
>John>Wm>Alzo

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12

7833

Wm+Lambert>James
>James>Wm Byram

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            

6429

Wm+Lambert>James
>James>Warren

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

18

12 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9

15

16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12

22

23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
117474 Wm+LamberJames
Wm>Wilson
3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 37 40 12 12                                                            
14155

Wm+Lambert>James
>Wm>Wilson

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   
163053

Wm+Lambert>James
>Wm>Harvey>Wm

3a

13

25

15

12

12

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
15548

Wm+Lambert>James
>Wm>Harvey>Gordon

3a

13

25

15

11

12

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                             
63672

Wm+Lambert>James
>Wm>Wm

3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

                                                                                     
55605 George ca 1692 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
20864 George bef 1785 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                             
57109 Cosby Alonzo 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   
50592 Thomas 1802 NC 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   
161294 Alfred Gaines P. 1810 GA 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   
163681 John>Isacc (sp?)Paulding Co GA 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13        
107999 Thomas 1902 MS 3a

13

25

15

10

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 41 12 12 11 9

15

16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
10265 Hardy>Thomas 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 41 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12

10428

Hardy>Eli 3a

13

25

15

11

11

15

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 42 12 12 11 9

15

16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
197970 Wm ca 1750 Bute NC>Wm Franklin>John Alma 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9

15

16 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13        
214569 John Pace Sr. d. 1737 3a

13

25

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15

16

8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
       ___Group_3b

3
9
3

3
9
0

1
9
#

3
9
1

3
8
5a

3
8
5b

4
2
6

3
8
8

4
3
9

3
8
9i

3
9
2

3
8
9ii

4
5
8

4
5
9a

4
5
9b

4
5
5

4
5
4

4
4
7

4
3
7

4
4
8

4
4
9

4
6
4a

4
6
4b

4
6
4c

4
6
4d

4
6
0

G
A
T
A
H4

Y
C
A
I
Ia

Y
C
A
I
Ib
4
5
6
6
0
7
5
7
6
5
7
0
C
D
Y
a
C
D
Y
b
4
4
2
4
3
8
5
3
1
5
7
8
3
9
5
S
1a
3
9
5
S
1b
5
9
0
5
3
7
6
4
1
4
7
2
4
0
8
S
1
5
1
1
4
2
5
4
1
3
a
4
1
3
b
5
5
7
5
9
4
4
3
6
5
9
0
5
3
4
4
5
0
4
4
4
4
8
1
5
2
0
4
4
6
6
1
7
5
6
8
4
8
7
5
7
2
6
4
0
4
9
2
5
6
5
122167 Unknown 3b? 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   
26541 Edmund+Walker 3b

13

25

15

11

11

12

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

17

17

17

                                                                                   
21419 John+Sarah>Stephen
>Edmond
3b

13

25

15

11

11

12

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

17

17

                                                                                   
19490 John+Sarah>Stephen
>Alsey
3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 30 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19

29

15 16 17 17                                                            

6280

John+Sarah>Burrell
>/Corneilus

3b

13

25

15

11

11

12

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

30

15

16

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 39 12 12                                                            
9852 John+Sarah>Burrell
>Jonathan
3b

13

25

15

11

11

12

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

30

15

16

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 41 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 13 11 13 11 11 13 12

88349

John+Sarah>Burrell?
>Richmond>William

3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    
76815

John+Sarah>Burrel
>Moses

3b

13

25

15

11

11

12

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

30

15

17

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
127433

John+Sarah>Burrell
>Daniel

3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 41 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
13700

John+Sarah>Burrell
>Daniel

3b 13 24 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    
7791 Jesse?>Simeon>Francis 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 41 12 12                                                            
65302 Jesse?John>Zachariah 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    
13827 Jesse?>Richmond>John 3b 13 26 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    
53888 Jesse?>Richmond>William 3b 13 26 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
10683 Wm+Sicely Walker>Wm 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    
16218 Wm+Sicely Walker>Alsey 3b 13 24 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    
134499 Wm+Sicely Walker>Gideon 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 13 12                                                            
138826 Wm+Sicely Walker>John 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 20 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
35220

Wm+Sicely Walker?Dempsey>Wyche

3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 23 15 19 30 15 17 17 17                                                                                    

7811

 Wm ca 1775+Sarah Frazer 3b

13

25

15

11

11

12

12

12

12

13

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

30

15

16

17

17

11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
137170 Thomas 1790 NC 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 15 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
 N89664  Robert Lee Pace/John Pace d. 1860s +Elizabeth 3b 13 25 15 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 17 17 17 11 11 19 22 16 15 17 17 36 40 12 12                                                            
  Convenience markers

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24 25

26

27

28

29

30

31

32

33

34

35

36

37

38

39

40

41

42

43

44

45

46

47

48

49

50

51

52

53

54

55

56

57

58

59

60

61

62

63

64

65

66

67

[Note] -8179 lives in London and traces his ancestry to a barge builder just across the River Thames from Wapping, where Richard Pace lived. He has only a 3-marker difference (shown in green) with group 3. Expanding to 67 markers reveals two more differences.  However, the match is close enough to support a good possibility of a relationship. This evidence tends to support a London area origin for this group and thus strengthens the possible connection to Richard of Wapping/London and Jamestown.

Where possible, the submitted common ancestry of sub groups are shown as follows:

Rich+Cain = RICHARD PACE b abt 1699 VA d bef 1776 Edgefield District SC  + Elizabeth Cain.  (as per Barnabus Pace Letter.)
Wm+Lambert =  WILLIAM PACE Sr. born abt 1750/1751, Granville, NC died bet 1830/1837, Rutherford County, TN + RUTH LAMBERT
Burrell = BURRELL PACE b. abt 1758 in Prince George County, VA + LYDIA WOODRUFF
Wm+Walker = William Richard Pace, Sr. b. abt. 1747 Halifax Co. NC m. Sicely Walker d. abt 1845 in Montgomery Co. TN
Jesse = Jesse Pace b. abt 1773 in Surry Co NC, d. aft 1820
Twitty = TWITTY PACE b 29 Dec 1789 Greenville Co., SC d 11 Feb 1849 Fannin Co., TX + SUSANNAH DUNCAN
Bartley - Bartley M. Pace, b. Apr 1837,Talledega Co, Al,
Wyche
-Wyche H. Pace, b. 1817 in TN, d. 1851 in Carroll Co.
John+Russell
- John Pace Sr (1750 VA - 1825 Greenville Co,SC) and wife Ann Russell

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